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Saturday, February 25, 2017

Margaret Courtenay, wife of Theobald Grenville - A summary of who cannot be the parents of Margaret Courtenay, wife of Theobald Grenville


Query 266: Margaret Courtenay, wife of Theobald Grenville

----- Original Message -----
From: caramut@bigpond.com
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 3:02 AM Subject: Courtenay Research
Dear Sir/Madam,
Attached is a document I put together as the result of a discussion about Margaret Courtenay, wife of Theobald Grenville, on the newsgroup soc.genealogy.medieval. It discusses who cannot be the parents of Margaret Courtenay and as a result directly contradicts the Devon Visitation and most of the unsourced pedigrees of the Grenville families.


I am a member of the Courtenay Society and I have also sent this to Powderham however I thought you might like to post it on your website as the Grenville/Courtenay marriage is one of the most quoted gateway marriages for people trying to find royal descent.


Sincerely,
Louise Staley
Caramut,
Victoria
Australia

A summary of who cannot be the parents of
Margaret Courtenay, wife of Theobald Grenville.

Theobald Grenville is said to have married a Margaret Courtenay. Various pedigrees,
notably the Devon Visitation and the Grenville History by Granville show this Margaret
Courtenay to be the daughter of Hugh Courtenay of Haccombe and his wife Maud
Beaumont. She is also described in Roskell™s History of Parliament as a sister of Edward
Courtenay, iothe blindln earl of Devon and his wife Maud Camoys. This would also
make her the sister of Hugh Courtenay of Haccombe.
This paper discusses all the known Hugh & Margaret Courtenays of the period and
comes to the conclusion that the Margaret Courtenay who married Theobald
Grenville could not be the daughter of any of them.
On 26 July 1381 John Grenville presented Robert Braybroke to Bideford and Thomas
Cary to Kilkhampton on 8th September of the same year "being then described as
son and heir of Sir Theobald de Grenvile, deceased." (Granville p54) On the basis that
he presented to Bideford and that was the gift of the lord of the manor, it appears he
was an adult, therefore born in or before 1360. Therefore John's father Theobald
would have been born prior to 1343 and his mother prior to 1344 (making him at least
17 and her 16 at the time of his birth). This fits with Theobald's father, also named
Theobald who was born in 1322 (Cal. Fine Rolls 1 Edw III).

1. Hugh of Haccombe Courtenay and his fourth wife Maud Beaumont. Hugh was
born after 1358 as he was the younger son of Sir Edward Courtenay and Emeline
Dauney and their eldest son, Edward "The Blind Earl" was born 3 May 1357. Hugh
married Maud Beaumont after 16 October 1417 (Faris). This Hugh was born too late
to be Margaret Courtenay, wife of Theobald Grenville's father.

2. Hugh, 2nd earl of Devon Courtenay and his wife Margaret Bohun. Hugh and
Margaret had 17 known children of which one was named Margaret who was their
eldest daughter and probably born about 1326. This Margaret married John, Lord
Cobham in 1332/33 and pre-deceased her husband, dying 2 Aug 1385. (C.P. III:344)
So this Margaret cannot have also married Theobald Grenville or been the mother of
John Grenville in about 1360.

3. Hugh Courtenay who married Elizabeth de Vere. This Hugh died in 1349 and
Elizabeth died in 1375, they were the parents of another Hugh Courtenay (of more
presently). However the following Close Rolls entry, shows they had no other living
issue in 1375, by which time John Grenville was certainly alive and would have
inherited had he been the grandson of this Hugh Courtenay.
From the Calendar of Close Rolls. Dated 1375 Nov. 27 at Westminster: "To Thomas
Sewale escheator in Buckinghamshire. Order to remove the king's hand, and not to
meddle further with the manor of Wavyngdon taken into the king's hand by the
death of Elizabeth who was wife of Hugh de Courtenay the younger, delivering to
Hugh de Courtenay earl of Devon any issues thereof taken; as the king has learned
by inquisition, taken by the escheator, that the said Elizabeth at her death held no
lands in that bailiwick in her demesne as of fee nor in service, but held the same
manor in fee tail by grant of the said earl made by fine levied in the king's court with
his licence to the said Hugh the younger and Elizabeth and to the heirs of their
bodies, with reversion for lack of such an heir to the earl and his heirs, that Hugh the
younger and Elizabeth are dead without issue, wherefore the said manor ought by
the form of that fine to revert to the earl and his heirs, and that it is held in chief by
knight service."

4. Hugh Courtenay who married Margaret de Brian then Maud Holand. This Hugh
Courtenay was the son of Hugh number 3. above, he died s.p. 20 February 1373/74
(C.P. IV:325) which fits with the entry above that shows his parents were "dead
without issue" in 1375. Additionally, this Hugh's father was not born until 1327, so could
not have had a great-grandson born in or before 1360. Lastly, another Close Rolls
entry dated December 6 1374 shows he had no issue by Maud Holand.
"To Oliver de Harnham escheator in Berkshire. Order to remove the king's hand, and
not to meddle further with the manor of Sutton Courtenay taken into the king's hand
by the death of Hugh son of Hugh de Courtenay knight, delivering to Maud late his
wife any issues thereof taken; as the king has learned by inquisition, taken by the
escheator, that Hugh de Courtenay knight at his death held no lands in that county in
chief in his demesne as of fee, but held the said manor in chief by knight service in
right of said Maud by gift and feoffment of Hugh de Courtenay earl of Devon made
with the king's licence to her and the heirs of her body by her said husband begotten,
with reversion for lack of such issue to the said earl and his heirs, and that the said
Hugh son of Hugh died without issue by her; and the king has taken the fealty of the
said Maud."

5. Thomas Courtenay who married Muriel Moels on 21 August 1337 (Weis 214-33).
Thomas was the son of Hugh Courtenay, 1st earl of Devon and his wife Agnes St.
John. Thomas and Muriel had a daughter Margaret who was born about 1352 (IPM of
her brother Hugh Courtenay 20 September 43 Edw III). This Margaret married Thomas
Peverell between 1369 (her brother's death when she was named as an heir) and
1374 when she is mentioned as having land assigned to "Thomas Peverell and
Margaret his wife." She is too young to have had an earlier marriage to Theobald and
produce a son before 1360 (i.e. before she was 8) and also Theobald lived later than
1374 when she was married to Thomas Peverell.

6. Sir Edward Courtenay of Godlington who married Emeline Dauney. Edward was
born in or after 1328 but more likely 1331 (Weis & Visitation). He married Emeline in
about 1348, too late for them to be the parents of Margaret Courtenay, born before
1344. Even if this Edward was born in 1328, he would have only been 16 when he
fathered Margaret, even for the period this is unlikely.
As far as is known that accounts for all the Hughs and all the Margarets from the
period. If Theobald Grenville did marry a Courtenay, which despite the above and
the lack of grants from the Courtenays to the Grenvilles, is possible, she would need
to be of the same generation as the children of Hugh 2nd Earl of Devon Courtenay
and his wife Margaret Bohun, that is, born in the late 1330's or 1340's.
If Margaret, wife of Theobald Grenville, was a Courtenay, she is most likely to be
found as a granddaughter of Sir Hugh Courtenay, 1 st Earl of Devon (d 1340) and his
wife Agnes St John by one of their children other than Hugh Courtenay and Margaret
Bohun. A less appealing alternative is that Margaret was not a Courtenay at all, but

the widow of one of the Courtenay men.

ANNE COURTENAY married GILBERT HOLCOMB in Volten, Cornwall, England before 1597


Query 264: ANNE COURTENAY married GILBERT HOLCOMB in Volten, Cornwall, England before 1597.
 ----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 6:26 PM
> fname=Judith
> lname=Hurley
> address1=45 Greenwood Avenue
> address2=
> city=Indian Head
> state=Maryland
> zip=20640
> Pezjude@cs.com

> ancestor=ANNE COURTENAY married GILBERT HOLCOMB in Volten, Cornwall, England before 1597.
  comments=Their son, Thomas Holcomb was born ca. 1597 in Pembrookshire, England. I found on the Internet that ANNE'S parents are PETER COURTENAY and KATHERINE, then EDWARD COURTENAY and unknown, and then THOMAS COURTENAY and MARGARET BEAUFORT, then JOHN COURTENAY and unknown, and then PHILIP COURTENAY and unknown, and then HUGH COURTENAY and MARGARET DE BOHUN.
>
> Is the above good information? Please excuse me, if I already sent this message. Thank you
>

Looking for information on Catherine Courtenay's son John Rogers and her grandson The Martyr John Rogers


Query 241: Looking for information on Catherine Courtenay's son John Rogers and her grandson The Martyr John Rogers.

Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 3:27 PM
> fname=Michelle
> lname=Harris-Kuzniar
> address1=9132 Mansfield Drive
> address2=
> city=Tinley Park
> state=IL
> zip=60477
> researchferret@aol.com

> ancestor=Catherine Coutyenay B. about 1438
> comments=I am looking for information on Catherine's son John Rogers and her grandson The Martyr John Rogers.  I descend from this line.
>
> Bridget Rogers B. about 1604-1609 daughter of John Rogers 1571 and Bridget Ray 1576 is the last Rogers in my line. According to my records she married Edmund Angier the had Bridget Angier who married John Harris they had Nathaniel Harris who married Elizabeth Hazen, they sired Bridgett Harris who married Deacon Joseph Boynton.
>
> Which brings us to Mary Boynton B 1739 who marries Joshua Parker B. 1740.  They produce Joshua Parker 1764 who marries a Sarah Rogers B. 1769/70, ther produce Joshua Parker B.1809 who marries Drucilla Dixon or Dickson Hartley B. 1824.  Drucilla and Joshua have Daniel Parker B.1866, he marries Hannah (Annie)Barbara Morris B. 1866.   My paternal grandmother Edna Cook Parker B. 1895 in Salt Lake City, is one of Daniels daughters.  Edna marries Virgil Fredrick Harris they produce Harold R. Harris who marries Carolyn Jane Prouty and they produce me, the long winded Michelle Louise Harris.
>
> Any information and or confirmation on the above people and or dates would greatly be appreciated and would speed up book I am writing about their lives.  While I want to weave a compelling story of their lives I want it also to be factual.
>
> Thank-You
> Michelle L. Harris-Kuzniar

Francis John Courtenay was a rector of South Bovey, Devon. He was born aboutt 1811 and married Emma Camilla Kilnear about 1836.

Query 240: Francis John Courtenay was a rector of South Bovey, Devon.
                      He was born aboutt 1811 and married Emma Camilla Kilnear about 1836.

Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 6:16 AM
> fname=Brooke
> lname=Watson
> address1=18 Moreton street
> address2=
> city=Russell Vale, Australia
> state=NSW
> zip=2517
> brookenbrett@ozemail.com.au

> ancestor=Francis John Courtenay
> comments=Francis John Courtenay was a rector of South Bovey, Devon.
> He was born abt 1811 & married Emma Camilla Kilnear about 1836.
>
> they had children Francis Henry & Reginald H.
>
> Any information on Francis John & his ancestors would be greatly appreciated.

I am interested in HENRY DRURY COURTENAY, born 30/10/1894 in Devonshire, England.

Query 239: I am interested in HENRY DRURY COURTENAY, born 30/10/1894 in Devonshire, England.

Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 5:53 PM
> fname=JIM
> lname=HERLIHY
> address1=8 Aisling Close
> address2=Ballincollig
> city=Co Cork
> state=Ireland
> zip=
> j_herlihy@esatclear.ie


> ancestor=Henry Drury Courtenay
> comments=I am interested in HENRY DRURY COURTENAY, born 30/10/1894 in Devonshire, England. He served as a lieutenant in the 20th Hussars and joined the Royal Irish Constabulary as a 3rd Class District Inspector on 2/7/1920.
>
> I am writing a history of the officers of the RIC.

John COURTENAY (c. 1800) Bristol, Gloucester


Query 224: John COURTENAY (c. 1800) Bristol, Gloucester

Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 10:35 AM
fname=Sandra
lname=Kennedy
address1=4 Hartley St
address2=
city=Coolbellup
state=Western Australia
zip=6163
skennedy@wt.com.au

ancestor=John COURTENAY (c. 1800) Bristol, Gloucester
comments=Looking for the following on my following COURTENAY family.

John COURTENAY (c. 1800) Bristol (parents unknown), married Edith (unknown).
They had a son named John (b. 1821, Bristol).

John COURTENAY (b. 1821) Bristol (son of John & Edith), married Caroline
FLOWER in 1843.  They had the following children:  Albert James (b.1845),
Edith (b.1846), Melinda (b.1849,)John (b.1852), Caroline (b.1854), George
(b.1856), James Francis (b. 1860)

George COURTENAY (b. 1856)Bristol (son of John & Caroline), married Amelia
TAYLOR in 1878.  They had the following children:  George Albert (b.1879),
John (b.1880), James Francis (b.1882), Frederick William (b.1884), Harry
(b.1887), Albert John (b.1891).

Frederick William COURTNEY (b. 1884)Bristol (son of George & Amelia),
married Florence Martha EDWARDS in 1905.  Frederick & Florence emigrated to
Australia in 1915.

GEORGE ROGERS, son of Thomas ROGERS and Catherine daughter of Sir Wm. Courtenay and widow of Sir Thos Pomeroy


Query 220: GEORGE ROGERS, son of Thomas ROGERS  and Catherine daughter of Sir Wm. Courtenay and widow of Sir Thos Pomeroy.

Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 8:35 AM
fname=ELIZABETH
lname=Howard
address1=Lion House
address2=140 Lynn Road
city=Downham Market
state=Norfolk United Kingdom
zip=PE 38 9 QF
lionhouse@supanet.com

ancestor=GEORGE ROGERS
comments=son of Thomas ROGERS  and Catherine dau of Sir Wm Courtenay and
widow of Sir Thos Pomeroy.   When and where were Thomas and Catherine
married ?      When and where was George their son born ?     Did he have
brothers Nicholas and Thomas ( John) ?  When and where were they born ?  All
in the 1450 - 1475 period.  Any help on references to the above will be
gratefully received.
-----------------MORE INFO ON ROGERS LINE IS PROVIDED BELOW ----------------


Sorry for the delay. I have been very busy with family activities lately. It is nearing the end of soccer season here, Cameron (our middle son) is having a birthday party sleepover, and fall is definetly upon us.
I believe our connection is through Thomas Rogers and Katherine de Courtenay. I will put what I have of a few generations of Katherine's ancestors down below.
I would love to have you point out any mistakes or common ancestors.
Hope to hear back soon. cheers for now,
Ron in quiet little North Yarmouth
-----------------------------
Hello Ron,
By all means, send your report attached to (or part of) an e-mail message. I will take a look at it and see what I have. I have records on several American lines. The complete database is available to Courtenay Society members as a Courtenay Society publication.
Best regards,  S. Courtenay

-------------------------------------------------Original Message-----
From: Ron Graham

Date: Saturday, October 09, 1999 9:54 PM
Subject: Courtney question
          [S. Courtenay],

Hello. My name is Ron Graham. And I have been searching for some of my Courtenay ancestors for a little bit now.

I recently got a letter from the Courtenay Society and your name and e-mail were listed.


I was wondering if I might send over a report with what Courtenays I have, so you might take a look at them.

It would be wonderful if we found a common ancestors, but regardless I was hoping you might give it a quick check to see if it has any obvious mistakes or omissions.
would love to hear back, Ron    [The lines attached below were provided by Ron]
Ancestors of Katherine De Courtney
Generation No. 1
1. Katherine De Courtney, born 1440 in Powderham Castle, Devonshire, England; died Bef. January 12, 1514/15 in Shillingford, Devonshire, England. She was the daughter of 2. Philip Courtenay and 3. Elizabeth Hungerford. She married (1) Thomas Rogers Sergeant-at-Law February 1482/83 in Branford, England. He was born 1435 in England, and died 1489 in Bradford-on-Avon, Wilts Cty. He was the son of Thomas Rogers Gent. and Avice (Amy) Stourton.
Generation No. 2
2. Philip Courtenay, born Abt. 1404 in Powderham Castle, Devonshire, England; died December 16, 1463 in England. He was the son of 4. John Courtenay and 5. Joan Champernoun. He married 3. Elizabeth Hungerford in Powderham Castle, Devonshire, England.
3. Elizabeth Hungerford, born Abt. 1400 in Of, Hungerford, Somersetshire, England; died December 14, 1476. She was the daughter of 6. Lord Hungerford Walter.
Children of Philip Courtenay and Elizabeth Hungerford are:
1 i. Katherine De Courtney, born 1440 in Powderham Castle, Devonshire, England; died Bef. January 12, 1514/15 in Shillingford, Devonshire, England; married Thomas Rogers Sergeant-at-Law February 1482/83 in Branford, England.
ii. Anne COURTENAY, born Abt. 1426 in Of, Powderham, Devonshire, England; married (1) Thomas GRENFIELD September 07, 1447 in License; married (2) Thomas GRANVILLE September 07, 1447.
iii. William COURTENAY, born Abt. 1428 in Of Powderham Castle, Powderham, Devonshire, England; died September 1485; married Margaret BONVILLE Abt. 1450 in Of, Chewton, Somersetshire, England.
iv. Elizabeth COURTENAY, born Abt. 1430 in Of, Powderham, Devonshire, England; died Abt. 1493; married (1) Thomas MALLET; married (2) James LUTTERELL January 13, 1450/51 in Lic; married (3) Humphrey Touchet De AUDLEY Abt. 1462 in Of, , Staffordshire, England; married (4) Robert CARY Abt. 1474.
v. Philip COURTENAY, born Abt. 1432 in Of, Powderham, Devonshire, England; died 1489; married Elizabeth Mrs. HYNDESTON Abt. 1454.
vi. Peter COURTENAY, born Abt. 1434 in Of, Powderham, Devonshire, England; died September 22, 1492.
vii. Catherine Courtenay, born Abt. 1438 in Of, Powderham, Devonshire, England; died January 12, 1514/15 in , Shillingford, Devonshire, England; married (1) Saint Clair POMEROY; married (2) William Huddesfield Abt. 1477 in Of, Powderham, Devonshire, England; married (3) Thomas (John) ROGERS February 1482/83; born Abt. 1435 in Of, Bradford, Wiltshire, England; died 1489.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: Catherine Courtenay (circa 1440-1513) was the GRAND-DAUGHTER of Philip Courtenay and Elizabeth Hungerford.   Her PARENTS were William Courtenay and Margaret Bonville.

She married three times and was widowed twice, Thomas Rogers was her first husband..

Her second husband was Sir St.Clare Pomeroy Kt., and her third Sir William Huddesfield, Attorney-General to King Edward IV.

She is buried in a fine tomb with her third husband in Shillingford St. George Church, near Exeter, Devon.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
viii. Walter COURTENAY, born Abt. 1438 in Of, Powderham, Devonshire, England; died November 07, 1505; married Alice KILRINGTON Abt. 1488.
ix. Edmund COURTENAY, born Abt. 1442 in Of, Powderham, Devonshire, England; died February 04, 1495/96; married Jane DEVIOKE.
x. Philippa COURTENAY, born Abt. 1442 in Of, Powderham, Devonshire, England; married Thomas FULFORD Abt. 1466.
xi. Humphrey COURTENAY, born Abt. 1444 in Of, Powderham, Devonshire, England; died April 23, 1496; married Elizabeth De La POMEROY.
xii. John COURTENAY, born Abt. 1446 in Of, Powderham, Devonshire, England.
Generation No. 3
4. John Courtenay, born Abt. 1384 in Of, Powderham, Devonshire, England; died Bef. July 29, 1406 in vp. He was the son of 8. Philip De Courtney and 9. Ann Margaret Wake. He married 5. Joan Champernoun.
5. Joan Champernoun She was the daughter of 10. Alexander Champernoun.
Child of John Courtenay and Joan Champernoun is:
2 i. Philip Courtenay, born Abt. 1404 in Powderham Castle, Devonshire, England; died December 16, 1463 in England; married Elizabeth Hungerford in Powderham Castle, Devonshire, England.
Children of John Courtenay and Joan Champernon are:
i. Humphrey COURTENAY, born Abt. 1405 in Of, Powderham, Devonshire, England; died in Sp; married (1) Joanna CHAMOND; married (2) Johanna CHAMOND Abt. 1431.
6. Lord Hungerford Walter
Child of Lord Hungerford Walter is:
3 i. Elizabeth Hungerford, born Abt. 1400 in Of, Hungerford, Somersetshire, England; died December 14, 1476; married (1) Philip Courtenay in Powderham Castle, Devonshire, England; married (2) William COURTNEY Abt. 1449.
Generation No. 4
8. Philip De Courtney, born Abt. 1340 in Exeter, Devonshire, England; died July 29, 1406 in Exeter, Devonshire, England. He was the son of 16. Hugh De Courtenay and 17. Margaret de BOHUN. He married 9. Ann Margaret Wake Abt. 1380.
9. Ann Margaret Wake, born Abt. 1360 in Of, Blisworth, Northamptonshire, England; died 1390. She was the daughter of 18. Thomas WAKE and 19. Alice Patteshull.
Children of Philip De Courtney and Ann Wake are:
i. Richard de Courtney, Lord Bishop of Norwich
ii. Agnes COURTENAY, born Abt. 1380 in Of, Powderham, Devonshire, England; died January 10, 1429/30; married (1) Otho (Otis) CHAMPERNON; married (2) SEYNTELERE.
iii. Richard COURTENAY, born 1382 in Of, Powderham, Devonshire, England; died 1415 in SP.
4 iv. John Courtenay, born Abt. 1384 in Of, Powderham, Devonshire, England; died Bef. July 29, 1406 in vp; married (1) Joan Champernoun; married (2) Joan Champernon Abt. 1403.
v. William COURTENAY, born Abt. 1386 in Of, Powderham, Devonshire, England; died 1419 in SP.
vi. Margaret COURTENAY, born Abt. 1390 in Of, Powderham, Devonshire, England; married (1) John HIGGINS; married (2) John HELE; married (3) Robert CARY Abt. 1395 in Of Holway, Devonshire, Engl; married (4) Robert (Carew) CAREY Abt. 1414.
10. Alexander Champernoun
Child of Alexander Champernoun is:
5 i. Joan Champernoun, married John Courtenay.
Generation No. 5
16. Hugh De Courtenay, born July 12, 1303 in Of, Okehampton, Devonshire, England; died May 02, 1377 in , Exeter, Devonshire, England. He was the son of Hugh De Courtenay and Agnes Saint John. He married 17. Margaret de BOHUN August 11, 1325.
17. Margaret de BOHUN, born April 03, 1311 in Of, Caldecote, Northamptonshire, England; died in , Exeter, Devonshire, England. She was the daughter of Humphrey De Bohun VIII and Elizabeth Princess Of ENGLAND.
Children of Hugh De Courtenay and Margaret BOHUN are:
i. William COURTENAY, born in Of, Exeter, Devonshire, England; died July 31, 1396 in Unmarried.
ii. Margaret COURTENAY, born Abt. 1326 in Of, Exeter, Devonshire, England; died August 02, 1385; married (1) Theobald De GRANVILLE; married (2) John De COBHAM in Of, Cobham, Kent, England.
iii. Hugh COURTENAY, born March 22, 1326/27 in Of, Exeter, Devonshire, England; died Bef. September 02, 1349 in VP; married (1) Elizabeth De COURTENAY Bef. September 1341; married (2) Elizabeth De VERE Bef. September 1341.
iv. Edward COURTENAY, born Abt. 1329 in Of, Haccombe, Devonshire, England; died in Vp; married Emmeline DAWNAY Abt. 1356.
v. Thomas COURTENAY, born Abt. 1331 in Of, Exeter, Devonshire, England; died 1381 in Sp; married Mrs Thomas COURTENAY.
vi. Elizabeth COURTENAY, born Abt. 1333 in Of, Exeter, Devonshire, England; died August 07, 1395; married (1) John De VERE; married (2) Andrew LUTTERELL 1359.
vii. Catherine COURTENAY, born Abt. 1335 in Of, Exeter, Devonshire, England; died December 31, 1399; married (1) Thomas (Engain) ENGHAIN; married (2) William HARRINGTON; married (3) William MOHUN; married (4) Thomas ENGAIN.
viii. Joan COURTENAY, born Abt. 1337 in Of, Exeter, Devonshire, England; married John CHIVERTON.
ix. Matilda COURTENAY, born Abt. 1339 in Of, Exeter, Devonshire, England; died in Sp.
8 x. Philip De Courtney, born Abt. 1340 in Exeter, Devonshire, England; died July 29, 1406 in Exeter, Devonshire, England; married Ann Margaret Wake Abt. 1380.
xi. Peter COURTENAY, born Abt. 1342 in Of, Exeter, Devonshire, England; died February 02, 1404/05; married Margaret CLYVEDON.
xii. Eleanor COURTENAY, born Abt. 1344 in Of, Exeter, Devonshire, England; married Henry De GREY.
xiii. John COURTENAY, born Abt. 1346 in Of, Exeter, Devonshire, England; died in sp.
xiv. Guenora COURTENAY, born Abt. 1348 in Of, Exeter, Devonshire, England.
xv. Anne COURTENAY, born Abt. 1351 in Of, Exeter, Devonshire, England; died in Unmarried.
xvi. Isabel COURTENAY, born Abt. 1353 in Of, Exeter, Devonshire, England.
xvii. Humphrey COURTENAY, born Abt. 1355 in Of, Exeter, Devonshire, England; died in sp.
xviii. Philippa COURTENAY, born Abt. 1357 in Of, Exeter, Devonshire, England.
18. Thomas WAKE, born Abt. 1319 in Of, Blisworth, Northamptonshire, England; died 1383. He was the son of Thomas WAKE and Elizabeth CRANSLEY. He married 19. Alice Patteshull Bef. June 14, 1354.
19. Alice Patteshull, born Abt. 1330 in Of Patteshull, Nrthmp, England; died August 10, 1398. She was the daughter of John (Pateshull) PATSHULL and Mabilia De GRANDISON.
Children of Thomas WAKE and Alice Patteshull are:
i. John WAKE, born Abt. 1340 in Of Blisworth, Nrthmp, England.
ii. John WAKE, born Abt. 1355 in .
iii. Thomas WAKE, born Abt. 1356 in Of Blisworth, Northampton, England; died August 14, 1383; married Maude PIGOT Bef. July 25, 1372 in Carding, Bedfordshire, England.
iv. Maude WAKE, born Abt. 1357 in Of Bliswoth, Nrthmp, England; died Aft. 1398.
v. Blanche WAKE, born Abt. 1358 in Of Bliswoth, Nrthmp, England; died Aft. 1398.
vi. Sibil WAKE, born Abt. 1359 in Of Bliswoth, Nrthmp, England; died Aft. 1398.
vii. John WAKE, born Abt. 1361 in Of Belton, Isle Of Axholme, , England.
9 viii. Ann Margaret Wake, born Abt. 1360 in Of, Blisworth, Northamptonshire, England; died 1390; married Philip De Courtney Abt. 1380.

Sir Henry Irving Courtenay (Newry Ireland) d. 1912

Query 191: Sir Henry Irving Courtenay

Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 6:01 AM
> fname=Sean Og
> lname=McAteer
> address1=Norbrook Laboratories station Works Newry N.Ireland
> address2=
> city=Newry
> state=COUNTY DOWN
> zip=BT35 6JP
> seanogmcateer@norbrook.co.uk
> ancestor=Sir Henry Irving Courtenay

 > comments=As far as we know Sir Henry Irving Courtenay was born in Newry he died in 1912 after that we know little, though someone thought he had founded a town in the US or Canada.  We are currently engaged in erecting a Millennium monument to all those from Newry who went on to achieve greatness throughout the world and the NAME Sir Henry Irving Courtenay was suggested to us. If you can be of any help we would be very greatful.
>
>                 Many Thanks
>                    Sean og McAteer
===============================
REPLY FOLLOWS:
From: "S. Courtenay"
 
> Hello Tom,  [cc: Sean Og McAteer, Courtenay Society]
>
> Thanks for your e-mail. Do you have any information about the Sir Henry
> Irving Courtenay (born Newry, died 1912) mentioned in the e-mail below (from
> Mr. McAteer, Newry)? I couldn't locate him in my database, although I
> haven't had a lot of time to research the name. Obviously he is directly
> descended from our Irish line.
>
> He must be Sir John Irving Courtenay, the SON of Edward HENRY Courtenay, as
> mentioned in the obituary notice below:
> Mr. McAteer must have the name wrong, as Sir John Irving Courtenay died in
> Oct., 1912.
> --------
> [Obituary notice - source unknown]
> COURTENAY - October 22, 1912 at 263a St.James Court, Buckingham Gate, Sir
> John Irving Courtenay, only son of the late Edward Henry Courtenay, late of
> Dublin, and Newry, Co. Down.
>
> [Note by Crossle:]
>    John Irving Courtenay, Sir, a barrister and a prominent figure in the
> city of London. He is Chairman of the City Liberal Association. Was given a
> Knighthood on the occasion of the King's Birthday Nov. 1907. [Vieled |
> Uiele?] Irish [Times?] 9 Nov, 1907.
> --------------------
>
> Best regards,
> S. Courtenay
>
> ----------See TEXT HITS on ***IRVING*** below:
> Edward Henry COURTENAY [8th name on stone] was born about 1804.  Died on 3
> Jun 1872 in Dublin, Ireland (at residence 28 Burlington Road).  Died age 67.
>
> He married Charlotte Jane HARRIET on 29 Oct 1835 in Cheltenham.  Charlotte
> Jane HARRIET was born about 1811.  Died on 9 Jan 1898 in Dublin, Ireland.
>
> They had the following children:
>
> +165       i. Charlotte Mary COURTENAY
>  166      ii. Agnes Anna COURTENAY was born in Cheltenham.  Unmarried.
>  167     iii. John ***IRVING*** COURTENAY was born about 1837.  Died.  Died
> unmarried.
> +168      iv. Jane Adelaide Courtenay COURTENAY
> ------------------
>
> The first letter from Crossle, shown below, includes a transcription in
> Crossle's own hand of a letter Crossle had in his possession from Hon. Rev.
> Henry H. Courtenay to Mr. John ***IRVING*** Courtenay, of London. This
> transcribed letter from Hon. Rev. Henry H. Courtenay appears to document the
> Newry, Ireland Courtenay line as being descended from Francis Courtenay m.
> 2nd Elizabeth Seymour.
> ----------------------
> 1905 letter from Philip Crossle to William Ashmead Courtenay:
>
> 11 Trevor Hill,  Newry
>          Co Down.
>                          12 Feb. 1905
> Dear Mr. Courtenay
>     I have received the enclosed (which
> is a copy) from a mutual friend.
>
>     You will see it is a letter from
> the Hon. Rev. Henry H. Courtenay to Mr. John
> ***Irving*** Courtenay of London, and is an
> acknowledgement of the relationship
> which exists between your branch with the
> parent stem at Powderham, and from which
> you see you are 28th in descent from the 1st English Courtenay.
>
>     I do not know if the Hon. Rev. Henry H.
> Courtenay has altered his opinion since
> writing his letter of 18 Oct. 1904, but if not
> his acknowledgement of the connection, I
> take as a compliment to myself that my
> deductions are correct.
>
> I hope that your health keeps well, and
> that you do not find the winter too severe on
> your side of the world.
>
>     Yours sincerely,
>                Philip Crossle
>
> Hon. Wm. A. Courtenay
>     Newry. U.S.A.
>         P.T.O.
> ----------------
>
> #26  1.        Charles Henry Courtenay             m.  Mary Henry
>                 b. 1770, d. 1809                          d. 1852, aged 66
>                 Owned the brewery in Ballybot
>
>                 1a.   Their son Edward Henry Courtenay  m.  Charlotte J. H.
>                      ***Irving***
>                      b. 1807, and was the father of
>                      Sir John ***Irving*** Courtenay (Knighted 1907)
>                      (Nephew of CHC, Edward Thomas C. of
>                      Savannah, GA, rec'd legacy from CHC)
> ----------------
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thatcher family" >
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2001 6:03 PM
> Subject: Courtenay relatives (Civil War)
>
>
> > Hi  S. Courtenay,
> > Geo and his wife are writing an article about Civil War sabotage and are
> > interested in Thomas Edgeworth Courtenay.  I think you can probably help
> > them more on this particular query than I can.
> >
> > ----
> >
> > Hi Geo,
> > The short answer is no.  The T. E. Courtenay in the LA cavalry is almost
> > certainly not him.  If he had enlisted in a regular unit anywhere, it most
> > likely would have been in Mississippi, where his brother, William Forrest
> > Courtenay, had been appointed aide-de-camp to the Commander in Chief of
> > the Mississippi Militia in 1846 (2 years before his death in 1848).
> > Thomas Edgeworth's only close family in America were his brother William
> > (who died in 1848) and his brother Charles, who went to California with
> > the '49ers.  However, he had more distant cousins in America who shared a
> > common ancestor, Edward Courtenay "of Lisk" in Ireland.  The most prominent was
> > probably William Ashmead Courtenay, who was a Confederate Officer and
> > later Mayor of Charleston, S.C.  TEC and WAC knew each other and there is one
> > letter from WAC to TEC (written after the war).
> > I am forwarding your letter to [S. Courtenay], who is descended from
> > William Ashmead and is also one of the corresponding secretaries in the
> > U.S. for the Courtenay Society.  He is in a better position than I to either
> > tell you about the men you mention, or to put in you touch with their
> > descendants, if possible.
 > >
> > One of the resources on his web site is a book of genealogical research
> > compiled by an Irish researcher in 1910 at the behest of William Ashmead.
> > This book can be downloaded as a pdf (Acrobat) file.  [S. Courtenay] has added
> > several appendices to the book including information about William Ashmead
> > and a transcription of a memorial marker put up to several of William
> > Ashmead's relatives who served in the Confederacy.  I have taken the
> > liberty of extracting the appendix as a separate (and therefore much smaller) pdf
> > file, which I am mailing separately.  You can download the entire file
> > from his web site.  He also has links to other Courtenay family members,
> > history, and other info.
> >
> > Tom
 ======================

> > These are the questions I wanted to send the Courtenay family, could
> > you send them on to them?:
> > >> Are these people relatives of Thomas E. Courtenay?
> > >> All in Louisville, Kentucky, Jefferson County:
> > >>
> > >> Robert Graham Courtenay married to Annie Christian Howard
> > >> 13 Oct 1842
> > >>
> > >> their children;
> > >>
> > >> Julia Christian Courtenay born 8 Jan 1844
> > >> Henry Courtenay born 10 Jan 1846
> > >> Robert Martin Courtenay born 28 Nov 1848
> > >> Thomas Anderson Courtenay born 20 June 1850
> > >> Helen Martin Courtenay born 12 Nov 1852
> > >> Emma Courtenay born 25 Aug 1854
> > >> Lewis Rogers Courtnay born 23 May 1857
> > >> William Howard Courtenay born 30 July 1858
> > >>
> > >> The 1890 Louisville City Directory shows; Annie C. Courtenay, widow
> > >> Robert G.; and Lewis R. Courtenay ;T. A. Courtenay;William H. Courtenay; and L.
> > >> R. Courtenay;.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> During the Civil War, are any of these relatives?
> > >>
> > >> Corp. Henson Courtenay, 1st Missouri Cav.
> > >>
> > >> Capt. John C. Courtenay, Co. B 7th Missouri Inf.
> > >>
> > >> and, is T. E. Courtenay, Robinson's Co. 1 Louisiana Cavalry, the Thomas
> > > Edgeworth Courtenay we're talking about?
> > --
> > Tom Thatcher
===============
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 6:35 AM
> fname=Sean Og
> lname=McAteer
> address1=Norbrook Laboratories
> address2=Station Works
> city=Newry
> state=Co. Down
> zip=BT35 6JP
> seanogmcateer@norbrook.co.uk

> ancestor=Courtenays of Newry SC USA
> comments=Thank you very much for your original mail, it has been a help to me, now that i have got the Sir John Irving Courtenay, I am very interested in the Courtenays who left Newry and settled at Charleston in 1791. My interest is further heightened by the letter from Philip Crossle to WM.A. Courtenay at an address Newry. USA. One of the lines I was working on was that a brach of the Courtenay family originally from Newry in Ireland founded a town called Newry in the USA. Could this be possible.  I would be very greatful if you can help as I would like to recognise the role of the Courtenay family in Newry.

Richard Courtenay - m. Sarah (no surname), had 3 children: William Murray Courtenay born 15/9/1824 in Chickerell, Dorset; Robert Ford Courtenay born 17/9/1826 in Chickerell and Richard Murray Courtenay (my great grandfather) born 27/7/1827 in Chickerell.


Query 175: Richard Courtenay - m. Sarah (no surname), had 3 children: William Murray Courtenay born 15/9/1824 in Chickerell, Dorset; Robert Ford Courtenay born 17/9/1826 in Chickerell and Richard Murray Courtenay (my great grandfather) born 27/7/1827 in Chickerell.

Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:13 AM

> fname=Kenneth
> lname=Courtenay
> address1=Coombes Cottage
> address2=16 Ash Walk
> city=Henstridge
> state=Somerset, England
> zip=BA8 0QD
> courtenays@aol.com


> ancestor=Richard Courtenay
 

> comments=Married Sarah (no surname)and had 3 children: William Murray Courtenay born 15/9/1824 in Chickerell, Dorset; Robert Ford Courtenay born 17/9/1826 in Chickerell and Richard Murray Courtenay (my great grandfather) born 27/7/1827 in Chickerell.

Frances Courtenay - Ballinrobe, Mayo.


Query 173: Frances Courtenay - Ballinrobe, Mayo. 

Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 5:14 AM

> fname=Aubry
> lname=Edwards
> address1=13 Kahika Grove
> address2=Elsdon
> city=Porirua
> state=New Zealand
> zip=
>wba@paradise.net.nz

> ancestor=Frances Courtenay - Ballinrobe, Mayo.
 

> comments=Frances (Ann) Courtenay/Courtney married Thomas Kenny in Ballinrobe ? 20 Oct 1698. Her father was David Courtenay, and I believe her grandfather was John Courtenay ??? and were  Rev. Courtenay.
 

The Courtenay name has been passed on throughout the Kenny family (My mother is (Janie Kenny) particularly here in our NZ branch of the family. Would like to know more of this branch of the Courtenay Family.